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DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta) *SPOILERS*
« on: December 09, 2004, 03:11:04 PM »
DIL SE's Destiny
Why, oh why, was DIL SE a box office 'flop' in India? I realize my
limitations as a 'videsi' (is that the right word?) to understand the heart
and mind of the Indian audience, but as a devoted lover of Bollywood cinema,
who doesn?t even watch western movies anymore, I can?t understand DIL SE?s
hometown fate.
Maybe it's because I am a painter and love visuals, but for me DIL SE will
always be one of my favorite films, right up there with Michelangelo
Antonioni's Red Desert.
*Santosh Sivan's camera work is, as the Planet Bollywood reviewer Anish
Khanna says, simply stunning. For those of us who will probably never visit
Ladakh, Sivan's images will remain etched in our hearts, inspirational.
*SRK's acting in this film was superb; at once a mix of his endearing,
boyish vulnerability, tenderness, and wild explosive impulsiveness that
characterize the intelligence of this great actor.
*The critics often say this is A.R. Rahman's best film score.
*Farah Khan's choreography is at its original imaginative heights. Who can
forget the dance in SATRANGI RE, the stunning images of passionate anguish,
love is an uncontrollable fire; or SRK's contagious energy, igniting
rhythms on top of that train? WAH! what a scene!; or tenderly protecting
Manisha in the get-up-and-dance song, the heart, it's a sweet hardship DIL
SE?
Was it because the ending was so tragic and SRK blew up? Is there an
understandable lack of sympathy for a Kashmiri terrorist? Was the subject
too raw, sensitive or serious?
I don't believe this film is about terrorism. This extreme aberrant of the
human experience is used as a dramatic environment to allow Mani Ratnam a
creative tour de force to reveal one of life's great mysteries: Our
eternal sense of separation and longing.
The unforgettable night scene up in the mountains, set to haunting music and
bathed in transcendental blue light, is a cinematic classic. Shahrukh is
alone al last with Manisha and, for one sweet moment, melts her icy
defenses. Intense close-ups fill the screen and invite us to journey into
their eyes, their tender smiles, and subtle expressions.
SRK tells her that he likes very much that he can read nothing in her
eyes, that there is so much hidden in her. Isn't this the relationship that
we all have with the eternally silent, sphinx-like Cosmos? He says: "I like
this distance between us the best. Without this distance, I would have no
excuse to get close."
Here Mani Ratnam expresses something deeper, something eternal about the
human condition itself - the essence of what drives us all, the space that
allows us the adventure into the unknown.
Shahrukh's pursuit of his elusive beloved - to the death - is not about some
lovesick fool, but rather reflects the underlying universal reality of all
our lives and what it means to be human, to long for something apparently
always beyond us.
SRK & Manisha's acting in the last scene of DIL SE is something I will never
forget. Shahrukh's volcanic presence often seems to bring out the best in
the other actors. It takes a lot of confidence for a beautiful woman to
allow herself to be photographed with so much pain written in her face, and
Manisha was awesome. Perfect as the no-make-up mountain village girl, her
timeless beauty sometimes reminds me of Madhubala.
In comparison to the empty, soulless, 'special effects' rubbish cranked out
of bottom-line-Hollywood year after year, I loved DIL SE with, yes, all my
heart. <g> I confess that I lost count of the number of times I have watched
this film.
So here is my prediction: DIL SE is destined to become a true classic of
Bollywood cinema, like KAAGAZ KE PHOOL, and beloved world-wide.
Now, please excuse me. I have to go turn up A.R. Rahman and dance my own
improvised Bharata Natyam all around the house
Subject edited by admin! See sticky post above for why...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 12:42:06 PM by apsara » Logged
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 06:59:24 PM »
Nice film but overrated for me.
Positively unusual but in my opinion partially unsuccessful trying to combine the magic of Tamil Ratnam films like Kannathil M. and the magic of mainstream BW films.
Still one that is definitely worth to see.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 01:58:00 AM »
I think this is the best Indian movie I've ever seen (had long review of it on old forum but didn't save it). Amazing performances and truly moving. I love SRK and Manisha talking *at* each other. I love the blue hue of the scen in his office as it bathes them in an intimate glow creating a private world that gets interrupted every time someone comes through during this most wrenching of conversations.
I love Manisha silently screaming into SRK's face, reliving her rape. I love the look he gives her when he brings her water. I love the "what do you love/hate" conversation.
I love his rage and frustration and his innocence, even as it's stripped away. I love her youth and her desire to live and be happy even as she is being thrust back into her hopeless world.
What ifs haunt you throughout this movie.
And the final scene. That final scene! Susan I hope you saved your post about it and will repost it....
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2004, 06:25:51 PM »
Definitely one of the best Bollywood movies ever made. Such stellar performances from EVERYONE, a riveting storyline, and emotions you can almost taste! Smiley
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2004, 06:59:00 PM »
One of my best best movies of all time (including Pride and Prejudice with Colin Firth!)
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2004, 07:04:20 PM »
One of the ten best movies I've ever seen from India. Some others are Astitva, Bombay, Alai Payuthey, Lajja, Kannathil Mutthamittal, and Fire.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2004, 07:35:11 PM »
Quote from: GreenBear on December 10, 2004, 01:58:00 AM
I think this is the best Indian movie I've ever seen... the final scene. That final scene! Susan I hope you saved your post about it and will repost it....
At the end of the film Shahrukh, beaten and bloody, approaches Manisha who has explosives hidden under her clothing. She has accepted her martyrdom and is headed for death.
SRK: “I once said I’d never leave you. I have come.”
Knowing she is a walking time-bomb and concerned for his safety, Manisha warns him to stay away.
Determined to fulfill her mission, she walks towards him and he lunges, grabbing her arm.
SRK: “This is the truth.”
He pulls her to him, holding her from behind, he can feel the explosives – but he doesn’t care.
He stopped caring about that long ago. He has made his decision.
SRK: “Don’t come with me, if you don’t want to.”
[This is a male, with a high testosterone aggressive job, who has just been beaten up, escaped the terrorists and the Indian CIA, and beaten up another terrorist to find her – and he says passively, gently, “Don’t come with me, if you don’t want to.”]
Her eyes are wild with fear – she’s freaking out now.
SRK: “Take me with you.”
[Once again, he is passive. He will not be the one to ‘take’ her.
He is surrendering to her Will.]
SRK: “Take me along.”
He holds onto her, ever tighter. Her face is twisted by her anguish and pain, tears streaming down her cheeks. He turns her around to face him – tears in his eyes and blood on his face.
SRK: “Take me along.”
Once more begging her, his bloodstained bandaged hand reaches for hers and desperate to feel her touch, he places her hand on his face.
SRK: “Take me too along.”
[Almost like a mantra, ‘Take me along’ is his expression of surrender to her...]
SRK: “You love me. Just once, say that you love me.”
SRK: “Just once, say that you love me. Just once, say that you love me. Just once, say that you love me.”
[Again a mantra of surrender...]
Then, eye-to-eye, their faces very close now – he says “Say it just once!”
Their eyes are locked in a silence that for them must reflect the slowing of time, as they both know they have only a few seconds left of life.
She looks deeply into him and with the least possible motion, nods lovingly, teary eyed – a new tenderness comes into her face, her eyes shinning with love for such a brief moment. She moves her head gently to almost nestle into him – a subtle demonstration of her final surrender to him and his love for her, which has at last overpowered her.
They embrace – after enduring the pain of so long a separation. They are now completely ONE.
And in what may be his greatest moment of acting genius, to my knowledge, Shahrukh makes a series of the most amazingly subtle and intelligent expressions I have ever seen. In what can only be a few seconds, he makes a timeless expression of a profound and deeply felt acceptance of this their tragic moment – and in defiance of their fate and impinging death, he simultaneously holds onto her as if to protect her within the strength of his tender embrace and undying love, as they move together into Death.
His lips purse slightly, expressing a stubborn determination, a slight nod of the head, like shrugging your shoulders, in relinquishment of all control, giving in and giving up, while his eyes say - 'It was all worth it.'
His lips are barely touching her forehead, as she is hiding in his protective embrace, waiting, steeled against the next moment. He takes a small breath, his last, letting go of everything, of life itself. He closes his eyes on this his tear and blood stained face, for the final time – and the bomb goes off in a white explosion!
[Total Surrender.]
A.R. Rahman’s music haunts you with these words:
Let me sleep in the lap of death!
Let me drown my body in your soul,
You of the many colors, of the many-colored soul.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2004, 08:16:35 PM »
Dil Se....egads what can I say? It is such a powerful, intense beautiful movie. SRK, Manisha and Preity were great in it! One of my top 10 movies for sure.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2004, 11:13:45 PM »
I think it's under-rated! Not over-rated...
It captured me alot, Dil Se...It was really interesting from begining 'till end (what an ending!). Very new, and realistic...this is what is going on there, this can be the reality for so many out there.
And I also found it very VERY unique and non-monolythiclly bollywoody! The setting, the dance sequences (those were UNBELIEVABLE and again...so unique!) the acting outstanding by both of the actors! None of that fake glamoure, or over-glamoure that happens often in Bollywood...it was a good movie. A tragic ending yes...but than again..life ain't always pretty.
Over all...good movie!
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2004, 12:32:32 AM »
It doesnt matter how many times I watch this movie, there's always something new to discover about it -- and the ending never fails to come as a nasty shock. Powerful, emotional and moving! The songs are the best ever-- one of my top 3 fave albums of all time.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2004, 12:36:55 AM »
I really need to rewatch this. It's been about 3 years. But oh, that ending. Can't ever forget that.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2004, 01:05:38 AM »
Oh Susan, wow! I am so glad you saved that! Your Dil Se posts were some of the very best stuff on the old board...
I love the fact that even after all that has happened Manisha cannot say that she loves him. She is too damaged, too disfunctional. The most she can do is that mute indication, and even that is a huge, momentous step.
Throughout the whole movie, you can feel the tug of war within her and the biggest tragedy is that she is always *so* close to giving up and trying to heal. Through the whole movie you keep hoping...if only, if only the world would let them alone, than maybe she could begin to live and maybe he could try and heal her through gentleness and love. But of course that can't happen.
And then that ending...
I also love that in some ways the stereotypical gender roles have been reversed here. She is the woman to whom cause is more important than personalities. He is the caring, loving innocent whose greatest strength is his emotion...
I also love seeing the internal tug of war inside SRK. You can see that he knows nothing good will come of it, and that it's driving him mad, and angry, and frustrated. It's making him lash out: love the scene between the two of them after her "brothers" beat him: this is a furious man. And SRK, the ultimate romantic hero, is utterly convincing as a man who is so full of both love and loathing and helplessness at both that he is seriously capable of wringing her neck.
Whenever I feel let down by BW, or see too many happy-family-BW movies, I rewatch Dil Se and marvel anew at the sheer beauty, the power, the emotional juggernaught that is Dil Se.
I think this is a perfect movie.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2004, 06:01:22 PM »
i am so disappointed with this movie. it was really an anti-climax for me when i finally watched it after hearing all the rave reviews it got. actually i have not finished watching this movie so maybe my views will change once i've seen the whole thing.
actually i'm very annoyed and irritated by this film for a number of reasons:
1) i cannot stand manisha. she looks mousy and bland and her character is also ratty and dull and just plain annoying.
2) Terrorism: it really pisses me off how terrorism is made into some glamourous form of bravery and triumph against opressive regimes. a terrorist is no martyr with strong values but rather a brainwashed puppet acting out of cowardice. i have no respect for any terrorist - there is no injustice which warrants anyone to blow themselves up and innoccent victims in the name of justice and fighting for one's freedom.
so i really have no desire to finish watching this movie and see manisha covering up her vixen character with pseudo innocence and purity.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2004, 06:04:53 PM »
Michal, I think it would be best if you finished watching the movie...the message that the movie is trying to send doesn't make any sense half-way through...
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2004, 07:43:29 PM »
Yeah, Michal, you should watch the rest. Terrorism is not romaticized in this movie. And there is a good reason why Manisha is so mousy and unglamorous in the film. Don't bring Manisha's other roles into the character, just watch the character of Megha for what she is.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2004, 09:20:33 PM »
Because of our war on terror, I think people are analyzing the subject strictly from the standpoint of US government propaganda. Terrorism tends to happen only when all other routes of redress of grievances close. The more effective a government becomes at submerging all dissent, the more likely it is for terrorist incidents to occur. Why is it bravery when US soldiers kill bystanders but cowardice when terrorists do? Either US military in Iraq are cowards or terrorists aren't. No way to have it both ways. Also, I think you have to consider what has happened to Meghna. She is suffering from one of the worst cases of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder of any movie character ever. If you don't know that, you really didn't pay much attention to the plot.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2004, 12:08:50 AM »
Um, Sanju_bhai, I think there is a great difference between killing civilians as an accident, whole you were trying to take out a military target, or because they were shooting at you, and purposefully taking out civilians to cause terror. But that is for the world at large thread.
I love Dil Se, even though I abhor terrorism in any form. I don't find Meghna likeable. But I find her interesting.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2004, 01:21:13 AM »
Um, GB, Meghna's target is the Indian president. She has no "plan" to take out innocent civilians. As for US victims in Iraq, it is a figleaf story that they are "unintentional".
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2004, 04:51:42 AM »
ok i just finished watching Dil Se... what a very sad, emotional and thought provoking film indeed.
of course after watching the part where manisha describes her past that has led her to a life of terrorism one can only feel moved, shocked, angry, sad etc....
still i cannot condone any form of terrorism as revenge for the atrocities she suffered. i don't have another alternative though. i don't think there is any way to right such wrongs - but i certainly don't believe that violence is an appropriate route. violence just breeds more violence, and the vicious cycle continues until it's impossible to blame one party.
also for me bollywood is a form of escapism where the hero is madly in-love with the girl and everything will be ok, love will overcome all etc... etc... - so it's always sad when things turn serious and don't work out like a fairytale fantasy.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2004, 05:05:46 AM »
Quote
Because of our war on terror, I think people are analyzing the subject strictly from the standpoint of US government propaganda. Terrorism tends to happen only when all other routes of redress of grievances close. The more effective a government becomes at submerging all dissent, the more likely it is for terrorist incidents to occur. Why is it bravery when US soldiers kill bystanders but cowardice when terrorists do? Either US military in Iraq are cowards or terrorists aren't. No way to have it both ways. Also, I think you have to consider what has happened to Meghna. She is suffering from one of the worst cases of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder of any movie character ever. If you don't know that, you really didn't pay much attention to the plot.
I also condemn every kind of terrorism.Whether it is masterminded and executed by individuals/groups,who are misled idealists turned into fanatics or people disappointed with their lives,or opporunists who have more than one interests.
Also,i condemn terrorists which are states.States that use their power to dominate financially in the world and under the cloak of democracy are allowed to do anything against other countries/peoples.
The difference is the latter ones are rarely seen as terrorists.
Guess which of the two i regard as hypocrits
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2004, 12:20:12 PM »
Preity Zinta and cinematography --- the best things about "Dil Se".
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2004, 01:13:28 PM »
Umm, people I am not a moderator, but any political discussion should go to the World at Large section where they belong.
Sanju_bhai and Paok: let's agree to disagree on the issue, or if you like a further discussion, let's move it to the World at Large.
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2004, 01:43:55 PM »
Quote from: Michal on December 19, 2004, 04:51:42 AM
ok i just finished watching Dil Se... what a very sad, emotional and thought provoking film indeed.
of course after watching the part where manisha describes her past that has led her to a life of terrorism one can only feel moved, shocked, angry, sad etc....
still i cannot condone any form of terrorism as revenge for the atrocities she suffered. i don't have another alternative though. i don't think there is any way to right such wrongs - but i certainly don't believe that violence is an appropriate route. violence just breeds more violence, and the vicious cycle continues until it's impossible to blame one party.
also for me bollywood is a form of escapism where the hero is madly in-love with the girl and everything will be ok, love will overcome all etc... etc... - so it's always sad when things turn serious and don't work out like a fairytale fantasy.
I dont understand your complaints with the movie here. I understand that you cannot condone terrorism,but....how is the movie condoning terrorism. Of course the leader of the cell says some lines in favor of his decisions, butdoes that mean that thats what the movie is trying to say. I am just confused, as I drew the complete opposite conclusion. What I saw was a trauma-struck girl latching onto the only thing that she felt could allow her to be proactive in bettering the situation of her people, and subsequently struggling internally about the morality and validity of the matter. She was clearly torn-up by what she was doing. She did not like it, glamorize it at all, but stillfelt compelled becuase it was her only option, save sitting on the sidelines. And at the end, I suppose, she decided that she could not live with either decision. Could not live with the pain, could not live with the attack. I dont think that her dying with SRK was a choice to be with him so much as a decision to overcome or confront her pain without resorting to killing others.
All of this struck me as completely unglamorous. None of this featured Hritik Roshan baring his glistening torso as he trains for battle or any other images of excitement and power. It was instead a, as you say, "mousey" traumatized young woman involved. I think she played the roll quite well to emphasize that there was NO glorificatino of terrorism. Had she not acted in such a self-tortured way, the viewer mght not have realized why she was doing what she chose to do, or the emotions that she felt.
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Debbie
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 05:56:05 PM »
Quote from: GreenBear on December 19, 2004, 01:13:28 PM
Umm, people I am not a moderator, but any political discussion should go to the World at Large section where they belong.
Sanju_bhai and Paok: let's agree to disagree on the issue, or if you like a further discussion, let's move it to the World at Large.
Thanks, GreenBear! Please confine all political discussions taht don't directly involve the film being discussed to the World at Large!
Thanks, everybody!
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pagal_ladki
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Re: DIL SE (*ing Shahrukh, Manisha Koirala, Preity Zinta)
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2004, 08:02:18 PM »
well, i just rented dil se again...i saw it such a long time ago (before i knew who SRK was! Shocked )...this will refresh my memory. can't wait for the song-dances!!!! Cheesy
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