Post by dancelover on Aug 18, 2017 4:16:59 GMT
I, Howard "Dancelover" Wilkins, collect evidence towards sorting out the "so many actresses called Gohar" confusion.
I am copying evidence and conclusions from a Temporary Post on Page Four of Thread 396.
My conclusions only are and will be posted at the bottom of Page Three of that thread.
bollywhat.boards.net/thread/396
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Sources:
1) Wikipedia's Lists of Bollywood films of (various years), and also from their Lists of films in other Indian languages.
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2) Wikipedia's pages for women named Gohar, Goher, Gauhar, Goharbai, etc.
2.1) Wikipedia page for Gohar Mamajiwala. Linked to cineplot.com/miss-gohar-profile/
....... Cineplot's profile links G Mamajiwala to Chandulal Shah as professional partners.
2.2) Wikipedia page for Amirbai Karnataki includes "born 1906, [had] elder sister Gauherbai, an actress ..."
....... but Wikipedia has no page for any Gauherbai Karnataki or Gohar Karnataki.
2.3) Wiki page for Chandulal Shah includes "[at] Kohinoor Film Co. ... with Gohar ... both a personal and profesional relationship."
....... His page also includes "... Typist Girl (1926) [and] another five films featuring Gohar."
2.4) Wiki page for Bal Gandharva now (8/18/2017) includes "his ... company ... found Gohar Karnataki in April 1938. [He] ... soon
....... [was] intimate with G. Karnataki, **also known as Gauhar Bai** ..." which is the first link I have seen between Gohar K. and
....... Gauhar Bai Karnataki. Bal Gandharva's Wikipedia page had not mentioned Gauhar Bai in December 2016.
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3) Complete Index To World Films, Alan Goble's website,
.... lists 18 pages for people named "Gohar" of whom only some matter to this search.
.... I have rearranged his list for my convenience (as I perceive it).
3.1) Kayoom Mamajiwala Gohar aka "Glorious Gohar" - Forty-seven film entries. Lifespan given as 1910 - 1985
3.2) Gohar Jr. - Has twelve film entries dated 1928-29-20-31. No lifespan dates.
3.3) Miss Gohar - One film entry: Shail Bala 1932. No lifespan dates.
3.4) Gohar Bai - No film entries. Lifespan given as 1910 - Sept 28, 1985 (which are Gohar Mamajiwala's dates).
3.5) Gohar Karnataki - Nineteen film entries, all as Actor, first 1932, last 1947, including C Sawar '37. No lifespan dates.
3.6) Gohar Kamataki - One film entry: Chabuk Sawar 1937. Listed as Composer, not Actor. No lifespan dates.
3.7) Gohar Kamatki - One film entry: Taranhaar 1937, as Actor. No lifespan dates.
NOTE: At this point I owe it to Mr. Goble to stipulate that his error rate is *much* less than mine,
........ by at least a full order of magnitude! (I estimate that I make at least ten times as many errors as he does.)
....... I can imagine him pouring over old fading records, hour after hour for days and months at a time, and once in
...... a long while seeing "rn" as "m" or skipping over one of those ubiquitous "a"s.
... Me, the depths of my ignorance are only partly shown by all those "%" signs showing guesses.
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4) Bollywood Humgana's List of Gohar Karnataki's Filmography. Eight (8) films.
.... Sohni Mahiwal 1933, Rambha Rani 1933, Mera Imaan 1934, Graduate (Parivartan\Harilal) 1936,
.... Bansari Bala 1936, Taranhar 1937, Sinhaldweep Ki Sundari 1937, Kuldeepak 1937
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5) Internet Movie Database (IMDb). I must confess to altering their records, by adding entries to their "Gohar (Mamajiwala)" page,
and then by myself making a new "Actor Page" for Gohar Karnataki, before I had collected and collated all available data.
... Before I had begun to meddle, IMDb had one page for these Gohars, with about ten fewer films listed than now,
and with eleven of the previously existing entries stating that the actress had used the name "Gohar Karnataki."
... I %guess that the consensus of data indicates that nine (9) of those films did star G Karnataki,
but that the two (2) made in 1940 were different-language versions of a film starring G Mamajiwala, who came out of
retirement (as actress) to help with C. Shah's important film about "Haridans."
... It has not yet been possible for me to transfer those nine films to the G Karnataki Page that I made, nor ought I to
do so even it was possible, because my %guesses ought to be checked by one who knows more about this than I know,
or else by an owner of IMDb. (As I am merely a contributor, I lack the right to make such changes.)
Dancelver - omitians and er-roars are mine. Meanwhile, copying, collating, and researching continue.
I am copying evidence and conclusions from a Temporary Post on Page Four of Thread 396.
My conclusions only are and will be posted at the bottom of Page Three of that thread.
bollywhat.boards.net/thread/396
==========================================================================
Sources:
1) Wikipedia's Lists of Bollywood films of (various years), and also from their Lists of films in other Indian languages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Wikipedia's pages for women named Gohar, Goher, Gauhar, Goharbai, etc.
2.1) Wikipedia page for Gohar Mamajiwala. Linked to cineplot.com/miss-gohar-profile/
....... Cineplot's profile links G Mamajiwala to Chandulal Shah as professional partners.
2.2) Wikipedia page for Amirbai Karnataki includes "born 1906, [had] elder sister Gauherbai, an actress ..."
....... but Wikipedia has no page for any Gauherbai Karnataki or Gohar Karnataki.
2.3) Wiki page for Chandulal Shah includes "[at] Kohinoor Film Co. ... with Gohar ... both a personal and profesional relationship."
....... His page also includes "... Typist Girl (1926) [and] another five films featuring Gohar."
2.4) Wiki page for Bal Gandharva now (8/18/2017) includes "his ... company ... found Gohar Karnataki in April 1938. [He] ... soon
....... [was] intimate with G. Karnataki, **also known as Gauhar Bai** ..." which is the first link I have seen between Gohar K. and
....... Gauhar Bai Karnataki. Bal Gandharva's Wikipedia page had not mentioned Gauhar Bai in December 2016.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) Complete Index To World Films, Alan Goble's website,
.... lists 18 pages for people named "Gohar" of whom only some matter to this search.
.... I have rearranged his list for my convenience (as I perceive it).
3.1) Kayoom Mamajiwala Gohar aka "Glorious Gohar" - Forty-seven film entries. Lifespan given as 1910 - 1985
3.2) Gohar Jr. - Has twelve film entries dated 1928-29-20-31. No lifespan dates.
3.3) Miss Gohar - One film entry: Shail Bala 1932. No lifespan dates.
3.4) Gohar Bai - No film entries. Lifespan given as 1910 - Sept 28, 1985 (which are Gohar Mamajiwala's dates).
3.5) Gohar Karnataki - Nineteen film entries, all as Actor, first 1932, last 1947, including C Sawar '37. No lifespan dates.
3.6) Gohar Kamataki - One film entry: Chabuk Sawar 1937. Listed as Composer, not Actor. No lifespan dates.
3.7) Gohar Kamatki - One film entry: Taranhaar 1937, as Actor. No lifespan dates.
NOTE: At this point I owe it to Mr. Goble to stipulate that his error rate is *much* less than mine,
........ by at least a full order of magnitude! (I estimate that I make at least ten times as many errors as he does.)
....... I can imagine him pouring over old fading records, hour after hour for days and months at a time, and once in
...... a long while seeing "rn" as "m" or skipping over one of those ubiquitous "a"s.
... Me, the depths of my ignorance are only partly shown by all those "%" signs showing guesses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Bollywood Humgana's List of Gohar Karnataki's Filmography. Eight (8) films.
.... Sohni Mahiwal 1933, Rambha Rani 1933, Mera Imaan 1934, Graduate (Parivartan\Harilal) 1936,
.... Bansari Bala 1936, Taranhar 1937, Sinhaldweep Ki Sundari 1937, Kuldeepak 1937
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) Internet Movie Database (IMDb). I must confess to altering their records, by adding entries to their "Gohar (Mamajiwala)" page,
and then by myself making a new "Actor Page" for Gohar Karnataki, before I had collected and collated all available data.
... Before I had begun to meddle, IMDb had one page for these Gohars, with about ten fewer films listed than now,
and with eleven of the previously existing entries stating that the actress had used the name "Gohar Karnataki."
... I %guess that the consensus of data indicates that nine (9) of those films did star G Karnataki,
but that the two (2) made in 1940 were different-language versions of a film starring G Mamajiwala, who came out of
retirement (as actress) to help with C. Shah's important film about "Haridans."
... It has not yet been possible for me to transfer those nine films to the G Karnataki Page that I made, nor ought I to
do so even it was possible, because my %guesses ought to be checked by one who knows more about this than I know,
or else by an owner of IMDb. (As I am merely a contributor, I lack the right to make such changes.)
Dancelver - omitians and er-roars are mine. Meanwhile, copying, collating, and researching continue.