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Post by dancelover on Apr 19, 2014 16:03:36 GMT
link to thread in Upcoming Films, with an Author Interview and some Song Picturizations: bollywhat.boards.net/thread/38/states-arjun-kapoor-alia-bhatt BoxOfficeIndia: Opening third best after Jai Ho & Gunday, 50%-60% of seats filled, multiplexes better than single screens. 11.5 crores First Day. Dancelover
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Post by Prem Rogue on Apr 20, 2014 14:49:33 GMT
Baradwaj Rangan's reviewWith Ek Duuje Ke Liye or Vicky Donor, we sense the effort to make something that’s more than just a cross-culture romance, the effort to make a movie. Why not have some fun with the fact that the only Hindi the hero knows comes from the cinema, and thus have a song – in an elevator that’s stuck – made entirely of concatenated Hindi-film names? Or, why not have the hero and heroine take a gentle dig at the stereotyping that surrounds them by calling each other “Fish” and “Butter Chicken”? Abhishek Varman’s 2 States, on the other hand, is content to be a sitcom, and not even a good one at that. Remember how wonderful Yeh Jo Hai Zindagi is when it plays inside your head? And know the feeling when, spurred by this nostalgia, you try to watch an episode on YouTube, and you cringe at the laugh track and the overemphatic performances? Sitting through 2 States is something like that. Worse, in fact. The Yeh Jo Hai Zindagi episodes lasted 20-odd minutes. This goes on for two-and-a-half hours.
That’s two-and-a-half hours of Tamilians eating from banana leaves and learning Carnatic music and rearranging their facial expressions as if trapped in an elevator where someone just let it rip. Two-and-a-half hours of Punjabis being crude and overbearing and suspicious of non-Punjabis, especially those dark-skinned Tamilians who just can’t wait to snare fair Punjabi boys for their daughters. Two-and-a-half hours of the most clichéd song situations – the shaadi song, the we-broke-up-and-I’m-moping song, the falling-in-love song.
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Post by karanjoharfan on Apr 20, 2014 21:50:49 GMT
First two days' collections of 24 crore! Box Office India is saying if this keeps up this will be the first super hit of 2014. Just came back from this and it is an absolute masterpiece. It is *not* a sitcom or cliched. It is a family and romantic drama with some funny moments. There is resonance, there is a feeling of a familiar situation, but only in sense of the characters' relation to their parents speaking to how many of us relate to our own parents. The compromises we make and yet their love for us. This movie is an adaptation of a Chetan Bhagat novel and somehow that author must really be able to tap into what people really feel as the success of "3 Idiots" at that also attests. Someone who can only see stereotypes, which there aren't even much of, in this movie is very much missing the point and not paying attention to the absolutely amazing and relatable characters at its core. Sensitive, nerdy IIT grad Krish's relation to his broken family, that is the heart of this story, clearly autobiographical to a large degree for Chetan Bhagat. It's not about communities. The movie hits all the right notes, suitably subtle and suitably melodramatic at points, great characters, intriguing subplots, great acting from Arjun Kapoor and Alia Bhatt, awesome songs, and seemingly a nice blend (though I wouldn't know if it wasn't) of North and South Indian elements. The attitude to sex was also interesting. Caught up in the moment, I'll give it a 10/10! I want to add my position on how this movie is not stereotypical is articulated better in this review I found, part of which I have excerpted below: annavetticadgoes2themovies.blogspot.com/2014/04/review-257-two-states.html"The film’s core strength is that while it revolves around cultural clashes, it does not resort to the irritating, sometimes nauseating community clichés that Bollywood usually favours. The Malhotras and Swaminathans are more like the Punjabis and Tamilians that I’ve had as neighbours, friends, colleagues and classmates all my life: yes there are social differences and specific characteristics, yet Ananya’s people are not oily-haired or cowardly, nor do you hear them say “Ayaiyyo” every step of the way; and Krish’s relatives don’t break into Bhangra, get belligerent or say “O paappe” at the drop of a hat. More to the point, in the virtual lack of differences between Krish and Ananya when they’re outside home territory, we see the reality of so many city-bred Indians, rooted in their ethos yet citizens of the world, who would and could blend in wherever they go.
Varman’s writing speaks to us gently of the many reasons why Indian parents object when children pick their own life partners, even in 2014. Sometimes it’s societal pressure; sometimes caste and other narrow-minded considerations; sometimes a genuine worry about whether their beloved child can handle differing customs and find acceptance in her/his partner’s family; but most of the time (though political correctness holds us back from saying this often enough) it’s an ego hassle that leads them to object for the heck of objecting, like when Krish’s Mom assumes from the start that that damned “Madrasan” must have trapped her son, because Punjabis are so white that any southern Indian girl would be dying to get hitched to a Punj boy.
I can imagine people out there saying, “par Alia Bhatt Madrasan toh nahin dikhti hai,” for obvious reasons. Well, the varying shades of skin colour within both clans in this film is an unspoken message to those who are fixated on the differences in complexion of various communities in India, to those who assume that “sab Punjabi gorey hotey hai aur sab Madrasi kaaley hotey hai”, but most especially to those who think white is beautiful and black is ugly."
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Post by allshewrote on Apr 20, 2014 23:41:09 GMT
I appreciated the high production value, but not the story.
If the Tamilian bride is fair, attractive, educated and from a middle class family, then what concessions are really being made to accept her as a suitable match for the Punjabi groom? And if the young couple is willing to flounce tradition to practically live together during grad school, then why cling to tradition when attempting to get married? I had too many questions and the script did not provide enough answers or characterizations. All of the relationships felt superficial to me and that is a shame after a two-and-a-half investment.
I also was not impressed by the acting -- with the exception of the gentleman who played Krish's father. IMO, many of the younger actors lack both uniqueness (in that their performances seem to be an imitation of other actor's work) and charisma. To me, even a quiet character should have a spark in his eye that makes the audience want to root for him.
I did, however, enjoy Ananya's clothes and some of the music.
In all, the movie, to me, was something to do, instead of something to think about.
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Post by karanjoharfan on Apr 21, 2014 0:03:47 GMT
I appreciated the high production value, but not the story. If the Tamilian bride is fair, attractive, educated and from a middle class family, then what concessions are really being made to accept her as a suitable match for the Punjabi groom? And if the young couple is willing to flounce tradition to practically live together during grad school, then why cling to tradition when attempting to get married? I had too many questions and the script did not provide enough answers or characterizations. All of the relationships felt superficial to me and that is a shame after a two-and-a-half investment. I also was not impressed by the acting -- with the exception of the gentleman who played Krish's father. IMO, many of the younger actors lack both uniqueness (in that their performances seem to be an imitation of other actor's work) and charisma. To me, even a quiet character should have a spark in his eye that makes the audience want to root for him. I did, however, enjoy Ananya's clothes and some of the music. In all, the movie, to me, was something to do, instead of something to think about. The point is there are no real concessions to be made ... The whole point of the movie is it is often more about parents' ego and fear that their children will love them less in falling in love with someone else, when they don't approve a match, than any real issues. That is explicitly stated in the movie. The flaw is in seeing this movie as a movie about communities and the differences between them. It is a movie about families and how they work. The "2 States" is just a backdrop and a context to illustrate the workings of families. Also, not subscribing to traditional views about sex or living together is far different from being willing to elope and not have parental approval. I don't see wanting parental approval, wanting your parents not to be cut off from you, as just a matter of tradition. As described above, I found plenty to think about and appreciate in the movie. But sure, it's mainly just an entertaining, feel-good movie to enjoy. And that's not a bad thing. Bollywood to me is supposed to leave me with a smile on my face and a dried tear on my cheek, in the words of Amitabh Bachchan, and it did that. (The tear came from a surprise involving Krish's dad.) Alia Bhatt and Arjun Kapoor have quickly and rightly in the last couple years become established as next-generation stars in the industry. Kapoor here plays quite a different, sensitive, understated and repressed role from the action hero mold of his earlier movies. The supporting actors are solid too. Revathy!
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leaf
Dancing in the chorus
Posts: 29
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Post by leaf on Apr 21, 2014 11:08:21 GMT
If the Tamilian bride is fair, attractive, educated and from a middle class family, then what concessions are really being made to accept her as a suitable match for the Punjabi groom? That she's not Punjabi. She doesn't know the traditions, the language, what's expected of her and she and her family don't at all care that she doesn't know. Most Indians are pretty protective about the particular way their community does or does not do things. Of course, KJofan is right that this isn't really about cultural differences, it's about Krish's mother's expectation he would do everything to make her happy, including marrying the kind of daughter-in-law she would like.
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Post by allshewrote on Apr 21, 2014 22:47:14 GMT
It's not a flaw, it's my opinion. And considering how the movie was marketed, I don't see where I jumped to the wrong conclusion. If the movie was, as you suggest, about "parents' ego and fear that their children will love them less in falling in love with someone else, when they don't approve a match," than that neither came across strongly enough for me, nor was the theme explored to my satisfaction.
I am suggesting that the characters are already avowing parental approval by engaging in a relationship that their parents didn't preapprove of and escalating that relationship to engagement (which people often want to do when they live together) without running it by either set of parents. IMO, the characters are essentially forcing the parents to accept their decision without making a statement about how they came to feel this empowerment given the backdrop of their familial expectations. Maybe the answer is obvious, but I would rather not assume or create rationale for characters' actions. I feel like that is the writer's job.
I can see that argument. I just feel like relationships, marriages in particular, don't fall apart because of rituals, but because of lack of respect, money, physical and emotional safety, disappointment, character, and the like. And, it would be cool to see on screen, in any cinema, married parents who can share that with their children instead of focusing on what I feel are superficial differences. And, if the issue is really a power struggle, I would like to hear voices and arguments from both sides.
I'm glad that you enjoyed the film. I didn't. But if everyone had the same tastes, what fun would discussion be?
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Post by MrB on Apr 22, 2014 11:05:50 GMT
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Post by jabimetbollywood on Jan 19, 2015 1:42:23 GMT
I found this movie sometimes quite interesting, occasionally fun, often draggy, sometimes overwrought, and overall just mediocre. And Arjun Kapoor did not impress me here.
However, I found the exploration of differences between Punjabi culture and Tamilian culture very interesting, so I actually checked out the book on amazon. I have not purchased or read it, but I read some of the reviews. I found many people complaining that the book (and, by extension, the movie) was insulting to Tamilians. Now, I'm not desi, but while I was watching this movie I was wondering if the writer suffered from some sort of Punjabi self-hatred, because I thought the Punjabis come out looking far worse than the Tamilians. The Tamilian characters were clannish, sure, but so were the Punjabi characters, and the Punjabi characters were furthermore often bigoted and boorish. Also, the whole episode at the wedding where Ananya can't believe there's still a dowry involved seemed designed to portray them as backward as well. But the comments that mentioned being offended were all offended on behalf of Tamilians.
What am I missing?
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