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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2013, 06:12:54 PM »
Before I go on, is there to be a spoiler thread for this film, or are regional films okay to have spoilery reviews in the original threads?
Anyhow, without giving too much of the plot away, the film seemed basically an allegory for the Christian view of the world. There's Christ and the anti-Christ (who very openly and too often refers to himself as Satan - yes, we get it, we get it) and the troubled human soul in the middle (symbol of humanity itself perhaps) whose eternal damnation/salvation is something both extreme ends of morality seek, personified in these two beings.
Except that the story of either man, the saviour and the devil, does not get set up properly, but then the film dwells greatly on their conflict later on, while the human boy's story is set up *so* gorgeously (and are the best bits of the film, and god can Mani work with child actors!) but then his own inner conflict fritters away to insignificance, only cropping up in bits and pieces as he's tossed around in the mega conflict between saviour and devil.
The love story is sweet enough, and plays its part in giving the boy glimpses of redemption, but the revelation of the girl's identity is crazily convenient, and the ensuing events are just ludicrous, from the conflict on the ship in a storm (yeah no kidding, ocean metaphors) and the sudden reveal that determines the ending.
It was hard to think this was a Mani film. Maybe because the crew is too different? Sujata has passed away, and the script and dialogues were by some Jeyanthikumar. I'd thought after Raavanan Mani would get back to his roots and dial up the genius, not dial down to the point of slight incoherence. Come ooooooon!!! I'd be more lenient with ANY other Tamil filmmaker than Mani Ratnam. Disappointing!
A word - so lovely to see Arvind Swamy back - the guy does natural like breathing oxygen. Gautham Karthik was made from the exact same mould as his father, and some reaction shots brought Karthik of Alaigal Oyvathillai into mind immediately, that same untamed rawness, and that unexpected vulnerability. Not a big fan of Thulasi - her face just seemed too frozen, not animated enough, especially given the kind of character she was playing. Arjun could've been so much better in this, but I feel the OTT characterisation might've done him a disservice. I found the language of Thoothukudi Christian fishermen very peculiar - in a good way - and liked how very traditional Christian terms seemed to come from Sanskrit (greetings of 'stotram', and calling the Father 'samiyar' etc - and mostly calling 'Thomas' 'Tommei')
Oh, why, Mani, why?Huh
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2013, 10:54:44 PM »
TR, sorry this was such a disappointment to you! I thought the film was a bit blah --- which in some ways maybe an even more damning comment, given that good or bad Mani's films never fail to engage. This is easily the worst screenplay that I can recall in a Mani Ratnam film. The archetypes of good and evil were incredibly unidimensional and the central conflict of Thomas caught in the crossfire seemed awfully superficial and his oscillation seemed so facile and lacking in nuance. Bea as the angelic figure was just flat out boring and poor Thulasi was saddled with a thankless role. To a large extent that was true of Arjun's role too, although he gamely tackled it. Except for the initial clutch of scenes I didn't feel invested in the main characters or their stories.
That said, I don't regret watching the movie. There was the trademark Mani Ratnam handling of the child Thomas. As TR mentioned that was affecting and moving and the child actors were terrific. Mani Ratnam knows how to film songs and the multi genre soundtrack worked surprisingly well in the movie. Elay Keechan was energetic and fun and a great coming out party for Gautam Karthik. The two love songs were beautiful even though they sort of blended into each other. Chithirai Nila was used a couple of times and was poignant and the choral gospel song Anbin Vaasale which played with end credits was stunning. But easily the most surprising was Adiye which like the song itself was presented very imaginatively and was unexpected -- at least to me.
Ultimately the movie belonged to the camera of Rajeev Menon which was the real hero of the film. The various moods of the ocean - Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Andaman Islands- were stunning. The shots of the fearsome ocean during cylcone Nilam were awesome. Props to Mani Ratnam for filming entirely in India and every single time it's a visual treat. Oh.... and welcome back Arvind Swamy, don't be a stranger again!
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 12:07:43 AM »
Uff, why did I have a sense that this movie was going to disappoint? Sad The story sounds so great (I am a fan of allegories and symbolism that is fairly straightforward); the Christian angle transposed onto a fishing village setting just sounds so interesting to me. But I've read several reviews and no one seems particularly impressed with how it's been handled.
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 06:34:29 PM »
Brangan loves it, although it sounds like he's reaching massively
baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/kadal-coast-analysis/
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2013, 04:46:16 AM »
Now, Mani Ratnam’s ‘Kadal’ in trouble
CHENNAI: After the 'Vishwaroopam' row, now Christian groups have filed a complaint against Mani Ratnam's 'Kadal', claiming that it is anti-Christian.
The Indian Christian Democratic Party on Monday filed a complaint with police commissioner S George against the film. They alleged the film had objectionable scenes referring to Christianity and sought their deletion. They warned of intensified protests if police did not initiate action.
Christudas, a representative of the organisation, told reporters that the filmmaker had hurt the sentiments of the people belonging to the Christian community. "We have demanded that the director remove scenes which hurt sentiments of the Christian community. They should take action against the director if the scenes are not immediately removed," he said.
Seems like you can't breathe in TN without offending some religious group these days...
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2013, 12:57:08 AM »
^ ROFL!! I'm honestly just DYING to know which scenes were considered anti-christian. Is there any way to find out? Evil
Regarding the movie I was pleasantly surprised that it played with subtitles here. Even the songs were subtitled, which is rare nowadays even in Bollywood. And since the songs were the reason why I wanted to see this in the first place, I felt my money was well spent because Elay Keechan was such a delight on the big screen. Though the one that left me open-mouthed was Adiye. It's only the second time I'm seeing this type of contemporary choreography done in a cool way in Indian films (the first being Awaaz in FALTU) so it was amazing to watch and I'm so glad I saw it on a big screen. Grin
The only other two things in the "plus" column are Gautham Karthik who's cuter than a kitten at play, and the cinematography which was sensational.
Unfortunately I found the rest of the film mediocre for lack of a harsher word. I know Mani is an expert in drilling messages into you like you're a child, but even for him the whole God vs Satan rubbish was appallingly heavy-handed. And it really ruined the movie. This was not an allegory, because an allegory is elegant and leaves room for interpretation. This was more like a very bad fable: written for children with the minimum amount of subtlety. It's not just that he was spelling everything out (which I understand is a prerequisite for films that want to reach a broader audience in India and I can live with that), but he was incessantly spelling out the same thing. And I'm pretty sure this time it wasn't the fault of the subtitles. In fact I really would have enjoyed the film a lot better without them, it would have spared me the sermon.
Also, for a movie that spells everything out, Thomas' turn on the wrong path was bewildering and insufficiently justified. You'd think 10 or 12 of the lines about Satan could have been eliminated to make room for one line of script explaining his sudden change of heart. But I guess not.
I never really understood what the big deal is with Mani Ratnam's films (and every time I mention this I get sent to his early works in Tamil which are impossible to find with subs, so I may never find out), but whatever it was, between this and Raavan I'd say he's lost it. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after Raavan, which I also found lacking in subtlety and substance, but Kadal just proved that he's only getting worse. Oh well... at least the songs are still fabulous.
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That the powerful play goes on...
Ignore
Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2013, 06:12:54 PM »
Before I go on, is there to be a spoiler thread for this film, or are regional films okay to have spoilery reviews in the original threads?
Anyhow, without giving too much of the plot away, the film seemed basically an allegory for the Christian view of the world. There's Christ and the anti-Christ (who very openly and too often refers to himself as Satan - yes, we get it, we get it) and the troubled human soul in the middle (symbol of humanity itself perhaps) whose eternal damnation/salvation is something both extreme ends of morality seek, personified in these two beings.
Except that the story of either man, the saviour and the devil, does not get set up properly, but then the film dwells greatly on their conflict later on, while the human boy's story is set up *so* gorgeously (and are the best bits of the film, and god can Mani work with child actors!) but then his own inner conflict fritters away to insignificance, only cropping up in bits and pieces as he's tossed around in the mega conflict between saviour and devil.
The love story is sweet enough, and plays its part in giving the boy glimpses of redemption, but the revelation of the girl's identity is crazily convenient, and the ensuing events are just ludicrous, from the conflict on the ship in a storm (yeah no kidding, ocean metaphors) and the sudden reveal that determines the ending.
It was hard to think this was a Mani film. Maybe because the crew is too different? Sujata has passed away, and the script and dialogues were by some Jeyanthikumar. I'd thought after Raavanan Mani would get back to his roots and dial up the genius, not dial down to the point of slight incoherence. Come ooooooon!!! I'd be more lenient with ANY other Tamil filmmaker than Mani Ratnam. Disappointing!
A word - so lovely to see Arvind Swamy back - the guy does natural like breathing oxygen. Gautham Karthik was made from the exact same mould as his father, and some reaction shots brought Karthik of Alaigal Oyvathillai into mind immediately, that same untamed rawness, and that unexpected vulnerability. Not a big fan of Thulasi - her face just seemed too frozen, not animated enough, especially given the kind of character she was playing. Arjun could've been so much better in this, but I feel the OTT characterisation might've done him a disservice. I found the language of Thoothukudi Christian fishermen very peculiar - in a good way - and liked how very traditional Christian terms seemed to come from Sanskrit (greetings of 'stotram', and calling the Father 'samiyar' etc - and mostly calling 'Thomas' 'Tommei')
Oh, why, Mani, why?Huh
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maru7627
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Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2013, 10:54:44 PM »
TR, sorry this was such a disappointment to you! I thought the film was a bit blah --- which in some ways maybe an even more damning comment, given that good or bad Mani's films never fail to engage. This is easily the worst screenplay that I can recall in a Mani Ratnam film. The archetypes of good and evil were incredibly unidimensional and the central conflict of Thomas caught in the crossfire seemed awfully superficial and his oscillation seemed so facile and lacking in nuance. Bea as the angelic figure was just flat out boring and poor Thulasi was saddled with a thankless role. To a large extent that was true of Arjun's role too, although he gamely tackled it. Except for the initial clutch of scenes I didn't feel invested in the main characters or their stories.
That said, I don't regret watching the movie. There was the trademark Mani Ratnam handling of the child Thomas. As TR mentioned that was affecting and moving and the child actors were terrific. Mani Ratnam knows how to film songs and the multi genre soundtrack worked surprisingly well in the movie. Elay Keechan was energetic and fun and a great coming out party for Gautam Karthik. The two love songs were beautiful even though they sort of blended into each other. Chithirai Nila was used a couple of times and was poignant and the choral gospel song Anbin Vaasale which played with end credits was stunning. But easily the most surprising was Adiye which like the song itself was presented very imaginatively and was unexpected -- at least to me.
Ultimately the movie belonged to the camera of Rajeev Menon which was the real hero of the film. The various moods of the ocean - Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Andaman Islands- were stunning. The shots of the fearsome ocean during cylcone Nilam were awesome. Props to Mani Ratnam for filming entirely in India and every single time it's a visual treat. Oh.... and welcome back Arvind Swamy, don't be a stranger again!
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Dariya
As soon as Katrina moves on, I'll be
starring as the obligatory love interest
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Posts: 942
Ignore
Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 12:07:43 AM »
Uff, why did I have a sense that this movie was going to disappoint? Sad The story sounds so great (I am a fan of allegories and symbolism that is fairly straightforward); the Christian angle transposed onto a fishing village setting just sounds so interesting to me. But I've read several reviews and no one seems particularly impressed with how it's been handled.
Logged
“It’s good to see middle-aged uncles letting themselves loose in parties; they feel empowered by the Chulbul Pandey kind of dancing; wouldn’t it be odd to have a room full of Hrithik Roshans dancing in your party?” -- Salman Khan
tabula rasa
Conveniently forgetting that she's
*bollywood legend*
*******
Posts: 6160
That the powerful play goes on...
Ignore
Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 06:34:29 PM »
Brangan loves it, although it sounds like he's reaching massively
baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/kadal-coast-analysis/
Logged
...and you may contribute a verse.
Prem Rogue
*bollywood legend*
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Ignore
Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2013, 04:46:16 AM »
Now, Mani Ratnam’s ‘Kadal’ in trouble
CHENNAI: After the 'Vishwaroopam' row, now Christian groups have filed a complaint against Mani Ratnam's 'Kadal', claiming that it is anti-Christian.
The Indian Christian Democratic Party on Monday filed a complaint with police commissioner S George against the film. They alleged the film had objectionable scenes referring to Christianity and sought their deletion. They warned of intensified protests if police did not initiate action.
Christudas, a representative of the organisation, told reporters that the filmmaker had hurt the sentiments of the people belonging to the Christian community. "We have demanded that the director remove scenes which hurt sentiments of the Christian community. They should take action against the director if the scenes are not immediately removed," he said.
Seems like you can't breathe in TN without offending some religious group these days...
Logged
"Of course it's going to be in horribly bad taste. The question is, will it be entertaining to watch?" - Dil Bert
"A double filter coffee is a must after watching this film because of loudness."
Dolce~oro
The one & only Rockstar,
the one & only superstar
******
Posts: 3944
Ignore
Re: Kadal - (Gautham Karthik, Tulasi Nair, dir. Mani Ratnam)
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2013, 12:57:08 AM »
^ ROFL!! I'm honestly just DYING to know which scenes were considered anti-christian. Is there any way to find out? Evil
Regarding the movie I was pleasantly surprised that it played with subtitles here. Even the songs were subtitled, which is rare nowadays even in Bollywood. And since the songs were the reason why I wanted to see this in the first place, I felt my money was well spent because Elay Keechan was such a delight on the big screen. Though the one that left me open-mouthed was Adiye. It's only the second time I'm seeing this type of contemporary choreography done in a cool way in Indian films (the first being Awaaz in FALTU) so it was amazing to watch and I'm so glad I saw it on a big screen. Grin
The only other two things in the "plus" column are Gautham Karthik who's cuter than a kitten at play, and the cinematography which was sensational.
Unfortunately I found the rest of the film mediocre for lack of a harsher word. I know Mani is an expert in drilling messages into you like you're a child, but even for him the whole God vs Satan rubbish was appallingly heavy-handed. And it really ruined the movie. This was not an allegory, because an allegory is elegant and leaves room for interpretation. This was more like a very bad fable: written for children with the minimum amount of subtlety. It's not just that he was spelling everything out (which I understand is a prerequisite for films that want to reach a broader audience in India and I can live with that), but he was incessantly spelling out the same thing. And I'm pretty sure this time it wasn't the fault of the subtitles. In fact I really would have enjoyed the film a lot better without them, it would have spared me the sermon.
Also, for a movie that spells everything out, Thomas' turn on the wrong path was bewildering and insufficiently justified. You'd think 10 or 12 of the lines about Satan could have been eliminated to make room for one line of script explaining his sudden change of heart. But I guess not.
I never really understood what the big deal is with Mani Ratnam's films (and every time I mention this I get sent to his early works in Tamil which are impossible to find with subs, so I may never find out), but whatever it was, between this and Raavan I'd say he's lost it. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after Raavan, which I also found lacking in subtlety and substance, but Kadal just proved that he's only getting worse. Oh well... at least the songs are still fabulous.
Logged
"Main galat hoon, toh phir kaun sahi?" - Rockstar
dolcenamak.blogspot.com/